The Biggest Surprises of the Jan. 6 Hearings So Far

After interviewing greater than 1,000 witnesses and assembling a trove of effectively over 140,000 paperwork, the House committee investigating the Capitol assault on Jan. 6, 2021, is lastly unveiling its findings to the public.

So far, the panel has held three televised hearings: (*6*) and two sprawling daytime classes digging extra deeply into the inquiry’s findings and their implications for American democracy.

We’ve discovered of Donald J. Trump’s dedication to plow forward together with his plan to overturn the outcomes of the 2020 election regardless of being informed by his own advisers at the time that it was unlawful and that there was no proof of widespread fraud. We’ve additionally heard new particulars about Mike Pence’s harrowing day hiding from the rioters, and we’ve seen previously unreleased footage from the perspective of the law enforcement officials struggling to carry off the mob, amongst different revelations.

To attempt to make sense of all of it, I spoke with the Times reporter Maggie Haberman, who has been masking Jan. 6 and its aftermath and is ending up her forthcoming book on Mr. Trump. Our dialog has been edited evenly for size and readability:

You’ve reported extensively on the occasions surrounding the Capitol riot, together with a recent scoop about fears among Pence’s aides earlier than Jan. 6 about his security. Has something shocked you throughout these hearings or modified the manner you consider that day or the months main as much as it?

The largest shock has been that John Eastman, a lawyer who suggested Trump on his technique for overturning the 2020 election outcomes, put in an email that he was interested in a presidential pardon.

What was putting was that Eastman apparently requested for it after two White House aides, the Trump adviser Eric Herschmann and the Pence adviser Greg Jacob, warned him that he was proposing issues in violation of the legislation. So I feel the hearings have adjusted the aperture on what we’d anticipate about attainable criminality concerned right here.

What is your learn on how a sure former president is reacting to the hearings thus far?

My understanding from a number of folks is that he’s been sad watching them. He’s annoyed particularly seeing the clips of his household — Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner — getting used in opposition to him.

Does Trump concern a attainable federal indictment?

He has at all times feared a attainable indictment, since lengthy earlier than he grew to become president, in accordance with many individuals who’ve identified him. Whether he does particularly right here is an open query. Some of his aides are adamant that he doesn’t suppose these hearings will result in something that touches him.

From the outdoors, the hearings seem like continuing easily for the Jan. 6 committee. What variety of inside turmoil, if any, has there been inside the panel in the run-up to this second? Are there necessary disagreements amongst members or their aides about easy methods to proceed?

Our colleague Luke Broadwater has executed more reporting on this, however the committee has not at all times been aligned on the place the key areas of focus must be. One of the areas through which we’ve seen that come into play has been what to do about Ginni Thomas, the spouse of Justice Clarence Thomas.

There has additionally been frustration amongst some of the members and their staffs about leaks, as there typically is with committees or establishments.

What is your evaluation of Representative Liz Cheney’s position on the committee, and what’s your understanding of what’s driving her? It typically appears as if she is one of the extra aggressive members of the panel, regardless of being one of solely two Republicans on it.

She’s clearly one of the leaders, and she or he’s a co-chair, in order that shouldn’t be a shock. But she has been necessary for them as a result of it’s very arduous to dismiss her as a political opponent.

In addition to her Republican bona fides — she is a daughter of Dick Cheney, removed from some liberal plant — she was truly a Trump supporter till he started attempting to undermine the 2020 contest vocally in the lead-up to Election Day. Trump allies have pointed to that as proof of hypocrisy, however the actuality is that for her, a line was crossed.

But folks can have a couple of motivation, and I feel she’s additionally been deeply troubled by how Representative Kevin McCarthy — who has focused her and removed her from her Republican leadership position in the House — has enabled Trump, starting shortly after the riot.

How, as a matter of political calculation, would you consider McCarthy’s choice to reject the committee and permit Speaker Nancy Pelosi to dictate its form and scope? Do Republicans have any regrets?

Republicans principally blame Pelosi for not permitting McCarthy to seat the members to whom she objected. But, privately, some Republicans are indignant with him, believing he walked away too quickly and will have had enter on all of it had he negotiated names.

What about the electoral impression of these hearings? To what extent do they matter for the 2022 midterms or for the presidential race in 2024?

Blake, I feel folks’s lives are economically so bleak proper now, save for the superrich, that anybody who’s being influenced by these hearings could have already had their minds made up.

Is any of this set of information for Trump? Absolutely not. But in phrases of the midterms, I feel it’s too quickly to say.

That’s completely different from the query of whether or not that is making it more durable for Republicans to avert their gazes from Trump’s conduct, which the hearings most positively are carrying out.

It’s additionally very tough to have a look at the combination of testimony thus far — and I don’t anticipate it would get higher for Trump — and see how somebody takes it and says, “That wasn’t that bad.” This is the chief of workers and chief counsel to the former vice chairman, Marc Short and Greg Jacob, laying out these arguments. It’s not Nancy Pelosi.

I may see it being utilized by people working in opposition to Trump in a 2024 major. But we’re a good distance from that proper now.

What to learn (and watch) tonight

viewfinder

A novel vantage level

On Politics usually options work by Times photographers. Here’s what Kenny Holston informed us about capturing the picture above:

As a photojournalist, I face many challenges that modify from project to project. One frequent problem after I’m working at the White House is getting right into a place for a storytelling picture with a recent view of a typical prevalence.

The White House press pool is commonly confined to small, sectioned-off areas at occasions involving the president or vice chairman. There’s little or no latitude to seek out artistic vantage factors.

The picture above got here from the East Room, as President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris entered for a bill-signing ceremony. As the press pool crammed into the common roped-off space, I made a decision to position myself reverse my colleagues in a special space designated for the press.

For these sorts of ceremonies, this space serves as a bit of a visible drawback. But I knew there is likely to be a possibility to create a kind of picture that isn’t typically seen and that different photographers most likely wouldn’t have. So I rolled the cube and was in a position to seize the picture above.

Thanks for studying.

— Blake

Is there something you suppose we’re lacking? Anything you wish to see extra of? We’d love to listen to from you. Email us at onpolitics@nytimes.com.